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-   -   Fuel Accumulator - OEM Ford Option (https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=424550)

slums 08-01-2018 10:32 AM

Fuel Accumulator - OEM Ford Option
 
Hey guys!

I was looking around for one of those VW fuel accumulators that Ireland used to sell for my M52 track car (it's an ETA with dual pumps) - seems to be NLA everywhere unfortunately.

I stumbled across an OEM Ford unit from early model Broncos and Rangers:
https://www.amazon.com/Ford-FOTZ-9K0..._detailpages00

Same principle, but a different shape etc. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't work in the same manner? Much cheaper than buying a used VW unit from Europe (I saw some on eBay for like $200+ before shipping!).

Anyone have any experience or feedback?

TobyB 08-01-2018 12:51 PM

That might just work-

a quick browse of the Ford forums seem to describe it as an accusump for
your fuel system. But they describe it as being for the lift pump on the
earlier trucks, not the high pressure system. So it'd probably
only help early cars with the low/high pressure pumps...

t

GThomas 08-01-2018 01:31 PM

In for an alternative also!

slums 08-01-2018 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TobyB (Post 4913272)
That might just work-

a quick browse of the Ford forums seem to describe it as an accusump for
your fuel system. But they describe it as being for the lift pump on the
earlier trucks, not the high pressure system. So it'd probably
only help early cars with the low/high pressure pumps...

t

That's to say the 84-85s and ETAs, correct?

I thought in general the fuel accumulator (including the "Ireland" version) was only for dual pump fuel systems, not the single pump ones.

Digitalwave 08-02-2018 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slums (Post 4913342)
That's to say the 84-85s and ETAs, correct?

I thought in general the fuel accumulator (including the "Ireland" version) was only for dual pump fuel systems, not the single pump ones.

That's correct, this should theoretically work for the dual pump E30s.

Finding a good spot to mount it might be tough. I'd also double check the orientation and try to see how the pick up points work internally, to make sure you don't mount it in a way that starves easily.

bradmer 08-03-2018 07:49 AM

The pasted in photos below were gathered from r3v members in my search to understand how to install the fuel accumulator on my rig. It appears to work for both single and dbl pump systems, as my 87 325i with a dbl pump system works just fine. The car has a 24v s52 with all CA smog equipment installed.

I installed the CARR Industries unit which is much smaller than the one you are considering, doesn't look like they make or sell it anymore though.
Perhaps an enterprising soul could get a 3d printer and start making them?

As mentioned above there is very little room under there to mount anything.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1818/...eb14b72d_b.jpg


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4667/...b65e054e_b.jpg

Digitalwave 08-03-2018 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradmer (Post 4913669)
The pasted in photos below were gathered from r3v members in my search to understand how to install the fuel accumulator on my rig. It appears to work for both single and dbl pump systems, as my 87 325i with a dbl pump system works just fine. The car has a 24v s52 with all CA smog equipment installed.

As mentioned in the quote, you have to have an external high pressure pump after the accumulator. Of course it can be done on a car that came with a single pump, but you definitely need 2 in the end.

slums 08-17-2018 08:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bradmer (Post 4913669)
The pasted in photos below were gathered from r3v members in my search to understand how to install the fuel accumulator on my rig. It appears to work for both single and dbl pump systems, as my 87 325i with a dbl pump system works just fine. The car has a 24v s52 with all CA smog equipment installed.

I installed the CARR Industries unit which is much smaller than the one you are considering, doesn't look like they make or sell it anymore though.
Perhaps an enterprising soul could get a 3d printer and start making them?

As mentioned above there is very little room under there to mount anything.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1818/...eb14b72d_b.jpg


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4667/...b65e054e_b.jpg

I did a quick 3D print design and printed out a proof of concept piece using a nylon filament.

Unfortunately the nylon dissolves in gas (tested it over a few days), and I don't have access to any more "hardcore" filaments with this particular printer.

There was also the question of having to find a way to epoxy some brass fittings etc.

Meanwhile I ordered the Ford unit, so more to follow when I receive it!

Chilezen 05-07-2019 08:54 PM

Update on surge tanks?

pandaboo911 05-09-2019 11:12 PM

That ford tank look problematic for a high pressure pump. The fuel feed is not at the bottom of the tank, it looks like all 4 are above the fuel level inside the tank, so the high pressure pump would have to lift fuel up and out of the tank.

HP pumps are typically not able to self-prime or lift fuel, hence why a 2nd lift pump supplies the high pressure pump with a large volume of fuel.
If you want a simple DIY solution for an early model, coil up a length of fuel hose 2-3 times before it goes into the high pressure pump. This will hold just enough fuel to prevent most starvation since high pressure pumps dont pump a large volume of fuel.

slums 05-14-2019 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandaboo911 (Post 4977623)
That ford tank look problematic for a high pressure pump. The fuel feed is not at the bottom of the tank, it looks like all 4 are above the fuel level inside the tank, so the high pressure pump would have to lift fuel up and out of the tank.

HP pumps are typically not able to self-prime or lift fuel, hence why a 2nd lift pump supplies the high pressure pump with a large volume of fuel.
If you want a simple DIY solution for an early model, coil up a length of fuel hose 2-3 times before it goes into the high pressure pump. This will hold just enough fuel to prevent most starvation since high pressure pumps dont pump a large volume of fuel.

Thanks for the insight, didn't know that the HP pumps couldn't pull fuel out of the tank.

On another note, the Ford unit is HUGE. Nowhere that made sense that it could fit. I guess coiling some fuel line may be an option.

Also, if anyone wants to take the time to give me schematics or a CAD drawing of the old fuel accumulator from Ireland, I could potentially do a plastic injection mold if there was a big enough group buy.

ForcedFirebird 05-14-2019 11:30 AM

I happen to have a brand new NOS VW accumulator in a box at the back of my shop, PM if you would like to purchase it.

On another note, I have built several endurance cars and just use a cheap aluminum tank, like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-F...YAAOSwEeFVBCEE

...and mounted it between the strut towers in the trunk of the car.

djjerme 05-14-2019 03:49 PM

I'd trust aluminum in my racecar before I'd trust something I 3D printed...

That being said, I've never had the same issues of starvation in my early two pump setup like all my friends have had in their later single pump style.

ForcedFirebird 05-15-2019 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djjerme (Post 4978473)
That being said, I've never had the same issues of starvation in my early two pump setup like all my friends have had in their later single pump style.


The dual pump setup works well, except we were killing the driver side pumps since they were just running wide open all the time (not sure if you did the tee method, or pumped from driver to passenger). We do 12-24hr races, so the extra capacity was a bonus. We still run out of fuel at Daytona at 1hr 45min, most other tracks we can make a full 2hr.

djjerme 05-16-2019 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedFirebird (Post 4978699)
The dual pump setup works well, except we were killing the driver side pumps since they were just running wide open all the time (not sure if you did the tee method, or pumped from driver to passenger). We do 12-24hr races, so the extra capacity was a bonus. We still run out of fuel at Daytona at 1hr 45min, most other tracks we can make a full 2hr.

Is that on M20?

Last 14hr race we did on my car, M20 stock except for cam/injectors/chip, was getting 1:30 per stint at the Ridge. And while we could only dump 10 gallons (almost 12 with our bumped out cans) we never had starvation issues. Even with an extended yellow and going a couple 1:45 stints.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Massive Lee 05-16-2019 09:18 AM

Anti-surge tanks are indeed for two-stage fuel systems only. Not working for single stage pumps. The lift pump fills the anti-surge tank (swirl pot) which remains full at all time (excess fuel returns back to the tank). The swirl pot is also fed by the fuel return from the fuel rail. The system ensures constant fuel supply to the main pump. Even on the longest sweepers.

ForcedFirebird 05-21-2019 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djjerme (Post 4978816)
Is that on M20?

Last 14hr race we did on my car, M20 stock except for cam/injectors/chip, was getting 1:30 per stint at the Ridge. And while we could only dump 10 gallons (almost 12 with our bumped out cans) we never had starvation issues. Even with an extended yellow and going a couple 1:45 stints.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Yes m20. We typically dump 15gal per driver change. We modified the fill necks so we can use a 1" hose on a jerry rig style can with a big 3/4" vent hose. Takes 1.5min per fill up.

varg 05-21-2019 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slums (Post 4916257)
I did a quick 3D print design and printed out a proof of concept piece using a nylon filament.

Unfortunately the nylon dissolves in gas (tested it over a few days), and I don't have access to any more "hardcore" filaments with this particular printer.

There was also the question of having to find a way to epoxy some brass fittings etc.

Meanwhile I ordered the Ford unit, so more to follow when I receive it!

Home 3D printing is not currently a viable solution for this, not FDM printing at least. Nylon should tolerate gasoline and ethanol without dissolving, if yours isn't it is probably because the material has been blended or otherwise adulterated for better printing characteristics. Nylon is generally gasoline resistant long-term but does weaken and soften. HDPE and PP are the common gasoline resistant plastics.


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