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Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM   #751
mrsleeve
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Trinket: GOLF CLAP.....

Its not about fighting the Fascist its about suppressing anything they disagree with, by assigning a scary name few people really understand to them. In doing so they give them selves the "moral superiority" and the "justification" in their eyes for the their actions.

Its a self fulfilling cycle based ignorance and those in places pulling the strings taking advantage of generally young, idealistic, "useful idiots" that dont know any better yet, or just those that will never know any better..... To people like that the ends always justify the means, kinda a scary perspective when viewed though your lens.
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Old Yesterday, 06:38 PM   #752
Exodus_2pt0
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See, this is the difference between people who perceive their keyboard as an ivory tower, and people who've done fieldwork.

The important metric is the current threat.

Communists are not driving cars into crowds of people protesting peacefully, or shooting up synagogues, or (list continues).
Your answer is loud and clear, though I don't think you realize how it has come across. Short sighted.
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Anyways, mustangs are gay and mini vans are faster than your car, you just have to deal with that.
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Old Yesterday, 11:04 PM   #753
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Your answer is loud and clear, though I don't think you realize how it has come across. Short sighted.
Yeah, while it was not at all an answer to anything that was being discussed, it was a pretty clear answer in another way. I feel like I just saw one of those threads where some kid wants to drift, so they welded the ring to the pinion gear and can't figure out why the car won't move.
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Old Today, 01:11 AM   #754
decay
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Yeah, while it was not at all an answer to anything that was being discussed, it was a pretty clear answer in another way. I feel like I just saw one of those threads where some kid wants to drift, so they welded the ring to the pinion gear and can't figure out why the car won't move.
I didn't bother answering the rest of what you said, because it was based on a false premise. I addressed that.
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Old Today, 01:20 AM   #755
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See, this is the difference between people who perceive their keyboard as an ivory tower, and people who've done fieldwork. The important metric is the current threat. Communists are not driving cars into crowds of people protesting peacefully, or shooting up synagogues, or (list continues).
OK, so self-proclaimed Nazi nutters killed a dozen people in the last year. Self-proclaimed communists didn't get into the news for killing anyone. You seem to be making an argument that Antifa's actions are based on evidence.

By that standard, if the goal is to prevent the unnecessary loss of human life, Antifa would get a LOT more mileage if they hung out outside of bars and kicked drunk people's asses if they got into the driver's seat of a car. Drunk driving kills more people in a single week than "Nazis" have in the last decade. Hell, the ass-kicking isn't even needed since you can just force them to take breathalyzer tests and detain them if they fail and insist on driving.

Based on your forum location thingy, assuming it refers to somewhere near the San Francisco Bay, or maybe a burb of LA, neither of the murders that you referenced happened within 2500 miles of there. I have no issue with claims of my keyboard being an ivory tower because this is a text-based forum and this is a thread where the idea was to discuss what people think about Antifa. There are, I assume, lots of bars around your area, from which drunk drivers emerge and hurt or kill people on a regular basis, so I am not sure what "fieldwork" you refer to when you mention murders thousands of miles away. You could be out beating up drunks in parking lots right NOW in your own community and saving lives.

Or is it more important to consider who is doing the murdering and how than the actual number of murders?
> Getting killed by a drunk guy is really just "one of those things", but if the driver is a deranged white supremacist then it is simply a bridge too far?
> People who drink and drive kill a lot of people but it's really just a matter of perspective whether drunk driving is a problem or not, but anyone who doesn't think that confederate statues should be destroyed is fair game for an ass kicking?



Really, I do get the impression that you want to go out and fight the injustices of the world. There's nothing wrong with that, and most people aren't willing to go out and do it. I just don't see why or how you would need Antifa to work toward that goal, and the entire Antifa thing is so logically fallacious that it's never going to do anything besides create more problems than it solves, with many of those problems being the same ones it claims to be trying to solve.
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Old Today, 02:58 AM   #756
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that's a really strange argument, because antifa are not setting ourselves up as any kind of police. we just don't like fascists, and one of the reasons i created this thread was to address how liberally people think we apply that brush. i've made that argument several times throughout the 50 pages of this thread, so forgive some brevity.

fascist activity doesn't mean *just* killing people, and i and other locals take direct action when we think it's justified. you're going to have to read back through the thread for details on that as well, i'm not typing it all over again.

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Getting killed by a drunk guy is really just "one of those things", but if the driver is a deranged white supremacist then it is simply a bridge too far?
the courts gave him life + 419 years, not us. take it up with them, and i'll continue being happy about it. even if i do call myself an anti-fascist, i still subscribe to the four-box theory: soap, ballot, jury, ammo, in that order. we only needed the 3rd box this time.

ironically, though- i'm working as a bouncer right now, at one of san francisco's major venues. it literally is my job to deal with drunk people, in the context of ensuring that all of our patrons are safe. so i guess i'm sort of doing the thing you suggest?
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Old Today, 09:24 AM   #757
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Round and round we go. I keep checking in... and the ideas discussed stay the same. Decay, I'm not sure if you are trying to convince US that Antifa is a worthwhile "political" movement... Or if you have so much invested that you are trying to convince YOURSELF that the ends justify the (truly ridiculous) means. And that is assuming there are any "ends." All the ridiculousness could be for nought. As it most likely will be. As mentioned by Trinket, there seems to much more valuable ways to spend your time and energy to accomplish your goals.

BTW, welcome Trinket. Nice to see another voice in this area of the forums.
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Old Today, 11:23 AM   #758
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that's a really strange argument, because antifa are not setting ourselves up as any kind of police. we just don't like fascists, and one of the reasons i created this thread was to address how liberally people think we apply that brush. i've made that argument several times throughout the 50 pages of this thread, so forgive some brevity.

fascist activity doesn't mean *just* killing people, and i and other locals take direct action when we think it's justified. you're going to have to read back through the thread for details on that as well, i'm not typing it all over again.



the courts gave him life + 419 years, not us. take it up with them, and i'll continue being happy about it. even if i do call myself an anti-fascist, i still subscribe to the four-box theory: soap, ballot, jury, ammo, in that order. we only needed the 3rd box this time.

ironically, though- i'm working as a bouncer right now, at one of san francisco's major venues. it literally is my job to deal with drunk people, in the context of ensuring that all of our patrons are safe. so i guess i'm sort of doing the thing you suggest?
Yeah, long thread for sure. I read the first and last couple of pages, so maybe I did miss some more detailed explanations from you.

Really, I don't see the point of Antifa if fighting "fascism" is the objective because it's nearly a non-issue in any measurable sense when compared to all of the other ways in which people are routinely killed and terrorized. It strikes me as being akin to getting really riled up that someone left the toilet seat up while the whole house is on fire. But, everyone has to do what they believe is right. Since the thread was asking about people's thoughts on Antifa, I guess that this about sums it up.

And sure, if you are keeping the peace at bars then I guess it makes for a funny coincidence with the thought experiment I was proposing. If you keep drunks out of their cars, good on you. As for the 419+ year sentence, I have no issue to take up. It seems that the justice system worked as intended and the proper outcome was had.
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Old Today, 04:25 PM   #759
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If you keep drunks out of their cars, good on you.
I can't take away anyone's keys when they get the kind of sloppy or hostile drunk that gets one ejected, but I always try for "give them a bottle of water and convince them to summon an Uber". Bouncers are not law enforcement and even though a DUI is a felony-in-progress and you're authorized to detain and call 911 for that, you're still putting yourself and the venue at legal risk if the person is already off the premises, and we don't have our own parking lot, so...

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It strikes me as being akin to getting really riled up that someone left the toilet seat up while the whole house is on fire.
I'm not a one-issue guy, and me making this thread shouldn't be interpreted as "this is the *only* thing I care about". But as an activist, I can tell you that caring and trying to do something about everything you perceive as wrong is the fastest route to burn-out, frustration, and apathy.

I'm almost surprised that the thread about Standing Rock didn't get you out of lurk status. Most of the people in P&R didn't understand why I did that either.
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Old Today, 04:42 PM   #760
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Fun discussion. Interesting times here. I, and I think most people, are cool with people doing what they can to make the world a little better within their own sphere of influence. The thing that seems to be super divisive is whether or not vigilante physical violence is justified or going to lead anywhere good.
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Old Today, 05:11 PM   #761
mrsleeve
I waste 90% of my day here and all I got was this stupid title
 
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I'm almost surprised that the thread about Standing Rock didn't get you out of lurk status. Most of the people in P&R didn't understand why I did that either.


That was because you took lots of miss information reported as fact both on traditional and social media, about something else you know even less than nothing about. You could not put an iota of independent thought or critical thinking into it, before rushing to put on your social justice warrior knee pads to go running to attempt to fulfill your misguided idealism yet again.

Sound about right???
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-
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Old Today, 05:12 PM   #762
decay
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The thing that seems to be super divisive is whether or not vigilante physical violence is justified or going to lead anywhere good.
And as a corollary to that- given that we know our police state government is ready and willing to commit violence, should they have a monopoly on it?
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Old Today, 05:16 PM   #763
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Originally Posted by mrsleeve View Post
That was because you took lots of miss information reported as fact both on traditional and social media, about something else you know even less than nothing about. You could not put an iota of independent thought or critical thinking into it, before rushing to put on your social justice warrior knee pads to go running to attempt to fulfill your misguided idealism yet again.

Sound about right???
i'll never get tired of how you can't even spell "you're misinformed" properly
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Old Today, 05:32 PM   #764
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I'll never forget reading this article, probably from almost 20 years ago now, of some highschool girl who wanted to start an anarchist club at her school. The school denied the formation of the club, so what does she do? She takes them to court over it...

Anarchists really are the dumbest people ever.
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