M5x and S5x over M20.. Why?

[DBShiznit]

How come no one keeps the M20 and turbo it? I feel like everyone is so quick to want to get rid of the M20. Am I wrong for wanting to keep my M20 and turbo it to keep the engine true to the car? I feel like good reliable power can be made from it

[HerbE30]

Some people assume 24v is better, because that's what the forums told them. Lots of members are on here running m20s in many different fashions, stroker or FI.

It's not about peak power possibilities either. There is an article on an e30 with over 900 hp, using an m20.

It does have his benefits, fuel economy, vanos, timing chain, torque, the EMS is better, but you can always upgrade to standalone. I would go m20 turbo before I would s52 swap.

It is wrong you want to 'keep it true'... M20 is a great power plant.

[kronus]

there's nothing particularly wrong with M20s, but they are constrained by the single-port heads and timing belts.

turbos significantly add complexity and failure points. this is fine for a dedicated toy car that you're ok tinkering with and learning on, but some people just want to toss a more powerful motor in their daily and have it function reliably. M/S5x hit that target on a reasonable budget and are very well-documented and straightforward to install.

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by HerbE30

Some people assume 24v is better, because that's what the forums told them. Lots of members are on here running m20s in many different fashions, stroker or FI.

It's not about peak power possibilities either. There is an article on an e30 with over 900 hp, using an m20.

It does have his benefits, fuel economy, vanos, timing chain, torque, the EMS is better, but you can always upgrade to standalone. I would go m20 turbo before I would s52 swap.

It is wrong you want to 'keep it true'... M20 is a great power plant.

I saw that article. That car has to be something out of this world to ride in.

I have an e36 with the M50 and I hate it. It's got more torque and power but the Vanos is noisy, obviously it has to be rebuilt but I don't know. I like the M20 under the hood of an e30. Hell even the M42's. How come those are so bad to turbo? Everyone always jumps on the 6cyl swap but a M42 turbo that makes good power will out handle a 6Cyl.. Just thinking outside the box I guess..

[kronus]

(also moved this thread to General Discussion since Members' Rides is for uh.. members' rides)

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by kronus

there's nothing particularly wrong with M20s, but they are constrained by the single-port heads and timing belts.

turbos significantly add complexity and failure points. this is fine for a dedicated toy car that you're ok tinkering with and learning on, but some people just want to toss a more powerful motor in their daily and have it function reliably. M/S5x hit that target on a reasonable budget and are very well-documented and straightforward to install.

I guess.. I don't man I heard M20s can be reliable with a turbo as well. Although it wouldn't be a reliable 500hp like the s5x's lol

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by kronus

(also moved this thread to General Discussion since Members' Rides is for uh.. members' rides)

Sorry I forget theres more to the forum than member rides where I spend most of my time.

[SkiFree]

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by SkiFree

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

I always wanted to do a turbo build. To me, having my vert with ~350whp and be reliable would be awesome fun as a weekend car.

[HerbE30]

Originally Posted by DBShiznit

I guess.. I don't man I heard M20s can be reliable with a turbo as well. Although it wouldn't be a reliable 500hp like the s5x's lol

They are fantastic with extra air, m20s love it. 8.8:1 compression means ARPs and a new HG will let you push 15ish safely. Depending on the build that could net you around 350~ depending on a few factors.

https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=398552

I compiled a lot of builds here, I was really unsure what I wanted out of my e30 and reference these a lot.

In my opinion the weakest link of an FI m20 would be the rockers, and that's only a problem if you like to bang off the limiter.

[HerbE30]

Originally Posted by SkiFree

Why bother even turbo'ing it? The M20 is a very underrated engine and has proven time and time again to hold it's own. 230whp-245whp is now easily achievable while still having good road manners (and using 91octane).

However, I get that kids just want to do a "motor swap" because it's almost a right-of-passage for any gear head. To each their own, we are all friends here.

But with a budget of lets say 2k, I don't think it's possible. That's a serious stroker with bbtb or itb and standalone, right? I've never seen an m20 with those numbers without previously mentioned mods. PLEASE prove me wrong.I would love to know

I feel like 2k turbo build could easily pass that number... Not as reliable I agree.

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by HerbE30

They are fantastic with extra air, m20s love it. 8.8:1 compression means ARPs and a new HG will let you push 15ish safely. Depending on the build that could net you around 350~ depending on a few factors.



https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=398552



I compiled a lot of builds here, I was really unsure what I wanted out of my e30 and reference these a lot.



In my opinion the weakest link of an FI e30 would be the rockers, and that's only a problem if you like to bang off the limiter.

However you can add a set of HD Rockers which are like $300 if I'm not mistaken.. I've been reading A LOT on this since I plan on doing an engine rebuild this winter. I wanted to know what I needed to do once the engine is out and I'm thinking HG and APR studs but I'm unsure the car will run if I drop the CPR more. It'll probably be slow as a snail without the turbo being added right away.. So maybe I should just wait until I'm ready to turbo.. decisions decisions..

[HerbE30]

Originally Posted by DBShiznit

However you can add a set of HD Rockers which are like $300 if I'm not mistaken.. I've been reading A LOT on this since I plan on doing an engine rebuild this winter. I wanted to know what I needed to do once the engine is out and I'm thinking HG and APR studs but I'm unsure the car will run if I drop the HG even more. It'll probably be slow as a snail without the turbo being added right away.. So maybe I should just wait until I'm ready to turbo.. decisions decisions..

Now you got me waffled. Is your engine fine or does it have issues?

Just run OEM gasket, it's what most people would do, and what I would do personally. For one major reason. The OEM gasket will throw/blow if you have a bad tune or issues. If you run MLS, you will throw a piston. (this is my opinion some may disagree). So unless you're familiar with tuning I would run OEM gasket. And don't run a thicker gasket <- that's when it would run sluggish.

Long story short. OEM gasket with ARPs will not change any performance and will be perfectly ready for boost when you are.

The rockers are 300 through Ireland Engineering, which is what everyone is using.

[DBShiznit]

Originally Posted by HerbE30

Now you got me waffled. Is your engine fine or does it have issues?

Just run OEM gasket, it's what most people would do, and what I would do personally. For one major reason. The OEM gasket will throw/blow if you have a bad tune or issues. If you run MLS, you will throw a piston. (this is my opinion some may disagree). So unless you're familiar with tuning I would run OEM gasket. And don't run a thicker gasket <- that's when it would run sluggish.

Long story short. OEM gasket with ARPs will not change any performance and will be perfectly ready for boost when you are.

The rockers are 300 through Ireland Engineering, which is what everyone is using.

I just edited my last post. Sorry for the confusion. I didn’t think you could run much boost with the stock HG


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[HerbE30]

Originally Posted by DBShiznit

I just edited my last post. Sorry for the confusion. I didn’t think you could run much boost with the stock HG


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I've seen people run 8psi on factory bolts and gaskets (as in not change them). It's really the factory headbolts that limit boost. Once you ahve ARP 12 or 15 is easily and safely done.