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Old 04-27-2019, 03:49 PM   #271
phillipj
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It's interesting to hear these outside opinions on the losing the right to vote issue!

An interesting thing to note is that in 2 states you can vote if you are incarcerated! Guess which 2? Maine and Vermont... exactly where Bernie is from. I think it makes a lot of sense that he stuck to his guns on this one and I see it as refreshing, not crazy.

But what makes sense to people and the legislature of Vermont may not make sense to the people of New York, or Florida, or Montana, etc. etc. etc. I see this as a states-rights issue and really should be left up to the people of each state to vote on. Just like they did in Florida where they had a vote on their last ballot to allow former felons the right to vote.

It's an interesting subject, but I also think it's "much ado about nothing" and just another way the right and left want to attack Bernie. It turns out that in Maine and Vermont where people in Jail can vote, most don't vote anyway. And most former felons do not vote anyway either. A big part of this is confusion; most aren't even aware they can vote, many don't care to, and many have other pressing concerns that make voting a low priority. I don't think people in jail or once in jail being able to vote or not is going to sway many elections but it is an important question: if you are a US citizen should you always have that right to vote no matter what? or can something you do forfeit that right?

It's a good topic. I really respect Bernie for his stance even if it isn't the popular one.
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:02 PM   #272
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Biden raised nearly $7m in his first 24 hours, seems like he's going to be a real player here. He's playing to the minority vote in several appearances and is definitely courting former Obama backers, should be interesting once we get some of the bigger names on the same stage to debate each other nationally.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:48 AM   #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillipj View Post
It's interesting to hear these outside opinions on the losing the right to vote issue!

An interesting thing to note is that in 2 states you can vote if you are incarcerated! Guess which 2? Maine and Vermont... exactly where Bernie is from. I think it makes a lot of sense that he stuck to his guns on this one and I see it as refreshing, not crazy.

But what makes sense to people and the legislature of Vermont may not make sense to the people of New York, or Florida, or Montana, etc. etc. etc. I see this as a states-rights issue and really should be left up to the people of each state to vote on. Just like they did in Florida where they had a vote on their last ballot to allow former felons the right to vote.

It's an interesting subject, but I also think it's "much ado about nothing" and just another way the right and left want to attack Bernie. It turns out that in Maine and Vermont where people in Jail can vote, most don't vote anyway. And most former felons do not vote anyway either. A big part of this is confusion; most aren't even aware they can vote, many don't care to, and many have other pressing concerns that make voting a low priority. I don't think people in jail or once in jail being able to vote or not is going to sway many elections but it is an important question: if you are a US citizen should you always have that right to vote no matter what? or can something you do forfeit that right?

It's a good topic. I really respect Bernie for his stance even if it isn't the popular one.
Yes, there are definitely things that should cause you to lose your voting rights, not just while you're in prison, but permanently. Like exploding a truck bomb at a federal building killing 168 people including 19 children.

Would you support someone like McVeigh or Nichols still having the right to vote while in prison?
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:20 PM   #274
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No, but I don't think anyone should have the right to vote in prison.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:55 AM   #275
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Biden is just Hillary 2, uninteresting centrist trash who probably will do nothing but maintain a seat so republicans cant have it.

I feel any non violent criminals should have the right to vote, even while in prison. In general America is too happy to mass incarcerate large amounts of people for anything. Mostly due to lack of quality public defenders being able to lessen or negate sentences for minor offenses.
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Old 04-29-2019, 07:35 PM   #276
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So instead of working to alleviate the problem of mass incarceration we'll just let those people in prison vote instead?

Sorry, but you just got sucked into the vortex of political bs, talk about some marginally relevant issue instead of focusing on the much larger, more important issue.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:03 PM   #277
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So instead of working to alleviate the problem of mass incarceration we'll just let those people in prison vote instead?

Sorry, but you just got sucked into the vortex of political bs, talk about some marginally relevant issue instead of focusing on the much larger, more important issue.
I mean, its literally a step, if they can vote from prison they can vote for representatives that will step towards fixing the system.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:55 PM   #278
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Biden is just Hillary 2, uninteresting centrist trash who probably will do nothing but maintain a seat so republicans cant have it.
Don't forget that Biden stepped out of a Presidential race already after it was revealed he faked his academic records. From there he should have been pulled back to civvie status. Instead, we let the representatives think that they are leaders. They are not, at least Biden and Hilary, Trump, Obama and Clinton were not good LEADERS....

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Old 05-02-2019, 07:09 AM   #279
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What's your definition of a good leader?

I'd wager your definition doesn't necessarily agree with mine, but in some part of it you'd have to acknowledge that being a good leader has to involve getting others to follow you. All of the people that you mentioned have legions of followers, that doesn't make them good leaders implicitly, however it's part of it. Additionally, I'd say that these people have also shouldered the tremendous burden of making decisions that affect many people, something that followers are not capable of doing.

You may not like those people and their political philosophies, but they clearly led many people for many years, Biden and Hillary have been in government for decades, there must be a reason that people have continued to put their trust in these people to lead them in government (or you're a conspiracy theorist and their continued status is because they are in the illuminati).


Also, Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado has entered the race.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:27 AM   #280
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A good Presidential leader for this very politically polarized country will lead/act/govern like they are a representative of all the People - left, right, center, rich, poor, even incarcerated.

Donald Trump is a poor leader for many reasons, but a principal one is that he is a DIVIDER.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:55 PM   #281
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A good Presidential leader for this very politically polarized country will lead/act/govern like they are a representative of all the People - left, right, center, rich, poor, even incarcerated.
Corporations, special interests, and wealthy donors don't want that.

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Donald Trump is a poor leader for many reasons, but a principal one is that he is a DIVIDER.
They want that.
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:29 AM   #282
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Corporations, special interests, and wealthy donors don't want that.
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Donald Trump is a poor leader for many reasons, but a principal one is that he is a DIVIDER.
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They want that.
We are very much on the same page.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:11 AM   #283
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And people on the Right would say that Obama was a divider. And people on the left would say that Bush Jr was a divider.

You guys are losing your objectivity here.
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:43 AM   #284
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^ which is all pushed by the media. Pick your poison, left leaning media activists or right leaning media activists. They have made division profitable, and put it on a pedestal above truth and objectivity. It’s very sad what by and large has happened to the 5th estate.
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Old 05-03-2019, 01:38 PM   #285
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And people on the Right would say that Obama was a divider. And people on the left would say that Bush Jr was a divider.

You guys are losing your objectivity here.
I don't think the two are even comparable. And I did not like Obama. But I'll take 8 years of him over two years of Trump. So far anyway. I'm still hoping Trump can torn it around, but seems he's too interested in dick measuring contests.
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